Novak Djokovic covid exemption - boycott the Open

Mike Harding · Guru

RE: Novak Djokovic covid exemption - boycott the Open

Mike Harding · Guru

dogbox wrote:
story coming out that novax has a diplomatic passport

He does, but it doesn't mean anything in the current situation.

dogbox · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:

dogbox wrote:
story coming out that novax has a diplomatic passport
He does, but it doesn't mean anything in the current situation.

muddies the water

Mike Harding · Guru

dogbox wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
dogbox wrote:
story coming out that novax has a diplomatic passport
He does, but it doesn't mean anything in the current situation.

muddies the water

No it doesn't: he didn't travel on it, it may only be used for diplomatic business, Serbia has not applied to Oz for him to be granted diplomatic status.

dorian · Guru

In British Law there is a concept called "jury nullification". Basically it means that a jury can legally return a verdict of not guilty if they believe the law is unjust. However, juries are never told that they have this power, presumably so that judges can maintain their authoritative positions. It is unclear if this principle applies in Australia, but I would be surprised if it didn't. I have seen cases where a judge directs a jury to return a particular verdict (which begs the question, why were they even there?). I wonder if those jurors could just tell him or her to go jump and come to their own conclusions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Jury nullification (US/UK), jury equity^[1]^[2] (UK), or a perverse verdict (UK)^[3]^[4] describes a not guilty verdict of a criminal trial's jury despite a defendant having clearly broken the law. Reasons may include beliefs that: the law itself is unjust,^[5]^[6] the prosecutor has misapplied the law in the defendant's case,^[7] the punishment for breaking the law is too harsh, or general frustrations with the criminal justice system. Some juries have also refused to convict due to their own prejudices in favor of the defendant.^[8] Such verdicts are possible because a jury has an absolute and unqualified right to reach any verdict it chooses, although they are usually not told of this right in the process of a trial.^[9]

Nullification is not an official part of criminal procedure, but is the logical consequence of two rules governing the systems in which it exists:

Jurors cannot be punished for reaching a "wrong" decision (such as acquitting a defendant despite their guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt).^[10]
A defendant who is acquitted cannot in many jurisdictions be tried a second time for the same offence.^[11]

DMaxer · Guru

I was looking at the court mention this morning and having a look at the documents that have been filed and released. It seems the reason for the visa cancellation is that as Novak is an anti vaxxer, his presence might incite other anti vaxxers and so have an effect on the public order. I wonder if the minister is aware that sitting a few rows back on his side of the house is a person in his coalition called George Christiansen. If he casts his eyes to the cross bench there is a fellow who used to sit with them called Craig Kelly. The are both vocal critics of vaccinations who the party defends as being allowed to have their own views.

I see the other aspect to be decided is whether tomorrow's hearing is to be before one or three judges. One judge, there can be an appeal, three judges, basically no appeal. The Government wants one judge and the lawyers for Novak have asked for the full bench of three.

It is just simply unbelievable.

In relation to judges instructing a jury Dorian, if the crown case collapses or is missing evidence of an element of an offence or is just simply miles short of proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt, the judge may give a Prasad direction. The judge sums up the evidence that the jury can rely upon and if it is inadequate he directs them that they can, not must, but can return a not guilty verdict.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 15th of January 2022 12:38:07 PM

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 15th of January 2022 12:42:15 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

They might be onto something.

"Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45?amp

Corndoggy · Senior Member

Call it quits and save us the $$$$$. A case put forward on Jerkoffabit being a 'talisman' of anti-vaccine sentiment.
Any wonder he'll win and make us look like fools.

-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 15th of January 2022 12:45:20 PM

dorian · Guru

I would have thought that lying on his visa application would be grounds for revocation. The revelations by Der Spiegel would seem to be damning as well.

As for Craig Kelly, he is a citizen, so he cannot be deported. The best the Libs could do is to disavow his rantings, which they have done, and for the same reasons that they have given in the Djokovic case. So I see no inconsistency there.

My point with jury nullification is that the jury has a de facto power to dismiss unjust laws, which is preferable to judges having those same powers. In fact judges are unelected de facto lawmakers, which I find intolerable.

-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 15th of January 2022 01:22:02 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

The only saving grace out of this entire avoidable landmine is that we can soon chuck out politicians like doggy doo bags!

Craig1 · Guru

And where are the rising stars from either side?, they are all looking ordinary to me

Ivan 01 · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
And where are the rising stars from either side?, they are all looking ordinary to me

Me too Craig.

montie · Guru

Didn't he make a false declaration on his Visa application?

The minister has discretionary powers and he cancelled the Visa in the public interest.

dorian · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
And where are the rising stars from either side?

He's in WA. If he were in charge federally, we would be in a much safer position. And Djokovic wouldn't be here ...

Ivan 01 · Guru

dorian wrote:
Craig1 wrote:
And where are the rising stars from either side?
He's in WA. If he were in charge federally, we would be in a much safer position. And Djokovic wouldn't be here ...

He could probably do it all by himself as well.

deverall11 · Guru

Seems like JoKo has lost the plot and wants/needs to win at all cost to satisfy his ego.
Never thought he was that way. Always came across as a reasonably balanced person.
Craig Kelly needs to be hung by the cojones and fed to the pigs or the sharks. Having said that,
they might also reject him.
Cheers,
Larry

-- Edited by deverall11 on Sunday 16th of January 2022 12:55:56 PM

dorian · Guru

Pack your bags, Novax. Will it be 1 year or 3 before we see you again?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-16/novak-djokovic-fight-against-visa-cancellation-court-ruling/100759514

Tony Bev · Guru

Looks like he has lost, and will not be playing tennis tomorrow

Edit to say, Dorian posted as I was typing

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Sunday 16th of January 2022 06:09:21 PM

Des and Jane · Senior Member

RE: Novak Djokovic.......The Federal Court has upheld the Ministers decision.

landy · Guru

RE: Novak Djokovic covid exemption - boycott the Open

Des and Jane · Senior Member

Geee, you guys beat me to it Ha Ha!
Or am I just getting slow in my old age...

Whenarewethere · Guru

I will go back to my doctor to see if I can get a second different vaccine as I had an unrecognised adverse reaction to the first one.

Things could change!

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Sunday 16th of January 2022 06:14:51 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

About bloody time!

dorian · Guru

What I find ridiculous about these legal challenges is that, according to CNN, the judges unanimously rejected the appeal because they deemed they had no authority to overturn the minister's decision. I would have thought that any ordinary solicitor would have been able to come to that same conclusion, let alone Djokovic's barrister.

https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/novak-djokovic-australia-visa-news-01-16-22-intl-hnk/index.html

Chief Justice James Allsop said the court's ruling to uphold the immigration minister's decision to revoke Novak Djokovic's visa was unanimous.

He began by saying the full bench of the Federal Court was not being asked to decide on the merits of the minister's decision, instead to review the legality of that decision.

"These grounds focus on whether the decision was for different reasons irrational or legally unreasonable. It is no part of the function of the court to decide upon the merits or wisdom of the decision," Allsop said.

SoloMC · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Kebbin wrote:
It seems that his reasons for a Medical Exemption didn't pass the BS test, Visa cancelled, but as we know any ordinary human would be bundled off on the next flight but Djokovic will get a Court hearing if he applies for one.
Anyone can challenge the visa decision in court.
Cheers,
Peter

in theory yes,

BUT, i doubt that just 'anyone' would get such an expediated a hearing before the full bench on a Sunday

Rob Driver · Guru

So the question is,

Do we see his self entitled ar$e and his suitcase on the next plane to Serbia or at least Spain?

What a waste of over a weeks media and many thousands of Australian dollars.
I wonder what govt news we were all distracted from during this fiasco. ( cynical thoughts)

I hope he has to pay compensation to Tennis Australia and our govt, and for his accomodation and domestic travel and court costs.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Get paperwork right first time.

Corndoggy · Senior Member

Think he will be put on the first available flight out. Funny thing is we have heard nothing on his teams status here. Maybe they've all been vaxed.

montie · Guru

I wonder where this will leave Tiley and Andrews....they not coming out of this debacle smelling of roses!

-- Edited by montie on Sunday 16th of January 2022 08:24:05 PM

landy · Guru

montie wrote:

I wonder where this will leave Tiley and Andrews....they not coming out of this debacle smelling of roses!

-- Edited by montie on Sunday 16th of January 2022 08:24:05 PM

Especially Tiley in my opinion he has a lot to answer for in this whole mess.