Ukraine: Is it time for a no-fly zone?

DMaxer · Guru

RE: Ukraine: Is it time for a no-fly zone?

dorian · Guru

I think the world should call Putin's bluff. Nobody wants to live under the apocalyptic threat of a resurgent Soviet "Union", so it's now become a choice between dying on our feet or living on our knees. We need to do this because there are more despots waiting to see whether we have the balls to stand up to them.

Phlipper · Senior Member

oldbloke wrote:
Phlipper wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
No, you dont hit Russian cities. You defend your homeland within your boundaries. Once you strike outside your own country then it is open slather.
Agree
With that attitude you are doomed to lose the war. Where do you think they make the equipment ammo store and make fuel, provide food for troops? They must hit their cities and military targets or die, it's war. It's already open slather, has been since 24 Feb. Ukraine has no choice. You cannot defeat an enemy defending only.
If you want to stop a bully, best strategy is punch him in the nose.
Ever played chess?

The Ukraine seems to be holding it's ground reasonably well without hitting Russian cities. For hundreds of years the Great Wall of China held back enemy forces without China needing to initiate attacks outside the Wall.

Mike Harding · Guru

Phlipper wrote:
The Ukraine seems to be holding it's ground reasonably well without hitting Russian cities. For hundreds of years the Great Wall of China held back enemy forces without China needing to initiate attacks outside the Wall.

I rather think those attackers did not have cruise missiles.

----

Dmaxer: you are comparing oranges and apples.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Pootin is laying mines everywhere, in built up areas & farmland. It will take years or more likely decades to clear them. At what point do you stop taking it?

Mike Harding · Guru

I heard the mayor of a small Ukrainian town from which the Russians had withdrawn saying they had booby-trapped fridges, washing machines and cars - just a little surprise goodbye present for some poor civilians. It will take the Russian nation a very, very long time to be forgiven for their behaviour in Ukraine.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I read somewhere Ukraine is using mobile phone signals to kill the Russian generals, amongst others, and to monitor troup movements.
Would I be offensive in asking for your source of this information?
Thank you in anticipation..

No, That's not offensive. It's very polite compared to some of your other posts. However, it is from a scientific journal.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I read somewhere Ukraine is using mobile phone signals to kill the Russian generals, amongst others, and to monitor troup movements.
I do wonder Lightbulb... whether you are a bot....

Less insulting than some of your other posts but I'm definitely not a bot. I'm a human being that believes in science.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
dorian wrote:
Rob Driver wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I read somewhere Ukraine is using mobile phone signals to kill the Russian generals, amongst others, and to monitor troup movements.
Would I be offensive in asking for your source of this information?
Thank you in anticipation..
Wait no longer.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2315553-russia-and-ukraine-are-both-weaponising-mobile-phones-to-track-troops/
While you mean well dorian,
Your link to me only permits the reading of the headlines.
The bulk of the story is blanked of faded out.
Buzz may have the information that he was eluding to.

I do subscribe to New Scientist so that's probably where I read it. You'd do well to also subscribe to New Scientist, though it is based on science and might be a bit hard for you to accept considering some of your other posts.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Phlipper wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
No, you dont hit Russian cities. You defend your homeland within your boundaries. Once you strike outside your own country then it is open slather.
Agree
With that attitude you are doomed to lose the war. Where do you think they make the equipment ammo store and make fuel, provide food for troops? They must hit their cities and military targets or die, it's war. It's already open slather, has been since 24 Feb. Ukraine has no choice. You cannot defeat an enemy defending only.
If you want to stop a bully, best strategy is punch him in the nose.
Ever played chess?

Ukraine is playing this very well. It has support of many western countries and the majority of the UN. If it attacks beyond defending it's territory it may lose face with the countries providing Ukraine with weapons, training and intelligence.

Ukraine can push as far back as the territory it occupied before the start of the war and maybe even retake Crimea, but that would be the limit of support.

I used to play chess but it became a bit boring.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Wednesday 20th of April 2022 12:23:18 PM

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Wednesday 20th of April 2022 12:31:14 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

dorian wrote:
I think the world should call Putin's bluff. Nobody wants to live under the apocalyptic threat of a resurgent Soviet "Union", so it's now become a choice between dying on our feet or living on our knees. We need to do this because there are more despots waiting to see whether we have the balls to stand up to them.

I think that most countries are hoping that Putin will be deposed and a more friendly ruler will take his place. Attacking Russia would be encouraging Putin to push for nuclear strikes on whoever he likes.

Whilst Putin is only attacking Ukraine most of the West will be happy to watch what happens. Especially when a very small country is standing up to a supposed superpower. I think that supplying Ukraine with weapons is the smart thing to do.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Wednesday 20th of April 2022 12:32:57 PM

dorian · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
If you want to stop a bully, best strategy is punch him in the nose.
Ever played chess?
I used to play chess but it became a bit boring.

Try this instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

dorian wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
If you want to stop a bully, best strategy is punch him in the nose.
Ever played chess?
I used to play chess but it became a bit boring.
Try this instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

Crikey, That must be classed as an extreme sport, isn't it?

dorian · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Whilst Putin is only attacking Ukraine most of the West will be happy to watch what happens. Especially when a very small country is standing up to a supposed superpower. I think that supplying Ukraine with weapons is the smart thing to do.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/09/neville-chamberlain-was-right-to-cede-czechoslovakia-to-adolf-hitler-seventy-five-years-ago-the-british-prime-signed-the-munich-pact.html

Seventy-five years ago, on Sept. 30, 1938, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich Pact, handing portions of Czechoslovakia to Adolf Hitlers Germany. Chamberlain returned to Britain to popular acclaim, declaring that he had secured "peace for our time." Today the prime minister is generally portrayed as a foolish man who was wrong to try to "appease Hitler -- a cautionary tale for any leader silly enough to prefer negotiation to confrontation.

As I see it, the situation is repeated in the animal kingdom. An entire herd of buffalo are at the mercy of a few predatory lions because they fail to realise that, if they were to mobilise themselves, they could trample the entire pride to death. Instead they sit back and watch while one of their number is killed and eaten, and they think to themselves that this time it wasn't their turn.

Mike Harding · Guru

dorian wrote:
As I see it, the situation is repeated in the animal kingdom. An entire herd of buffalo are at the mercy of a few predatory lions because they fail to realise that, if they were to mobilise themselves, they could trample the entire pride to death. Instead they sit back and watch while one of their number is killed and eaten, and they think to themselves that this time it wasn't their turn.

Nicely put Dorian.

I think history clearly teaches tyrants can not be satiated. How will Putin respond when, very likely, Sweden and Finland join NATO? Will he simply sit back put his feet up and say "Oh dear: that's not what I wanted..."?

Whenarewethere · Guru

He will invade. His sycophant generals will say it's all going to plan. Only one slight issue, Ukraine will by then have finished off every tank younger than 70 years old!

They have already lost 802 tanks.

oldbloke · Guru

dorian wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Whilst Putin is only attacking Ukraine most of the West will be happy to watch what happens. Especially when a very small country is standing up to a supposed superpower. I think that supplying Ukraine with weapons is the smart thing to do.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/09/neville-chamberlain-was-right-to-cede-czechoslovakia-to-adolf-hitler-seventy-five-years-ago-the-british-prime-signed-the-munich-pact.html
Seventy-five years ago, on Sept. 30, 1938, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich Pact, handing portions of Czechoslovakia to Adolf Hitlers Germany. Chamberlain returned to Britain to popular acclaim, declaring that he had secured "peace for our time." Today the prime minister is generally portrayed as a foolish man who was wrong to try to "appease Hitler -- a cautionary tale for any leader silly enough to prefer negotiation to confrontation.
As I see it, the situation is repeated in the animal kingdom. An entire herd of buffalo are at the mercy of a few predatory lions because they fail to realise that, if they were to mobilise themselves, they could trample the entire pride to death. Instead they sit back and watch while one of their number is killed and eaten, and they think to themselves that this time it wasn't their turn.

Pretty right.

Pootin is a bully. Break his nose. The quicker the better.