There's no racist like an old racist

dorian · Guru

There's no racist like an old racist

Gundog · Guru

Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.

Its time to defend this organisation

rgren2 · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.
Its time to defend this organisation

Defend or defund.

Gundog · Guru

Bloody predictive text " DEFUND "

Santa · Guru

Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.

The ABC has taken it upon themselves to become a platform for the downtrodden and minority groups, there was a time when they could be relied on to present the unvarnished facts, no longer the case, everything they publish seems to have a degree of spin.

Not my ABC.

dorian · Guru

Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying. The oldies are honest, outspoken, unabashed racists while the "woke brigade" are hypocritical, silent racists?

dogbox · Guru

i heard someone utter those words "go back to your own country" the reply was quick " who would pay the taxes that pay your welfare"

so the same can apply to the OP who would look after the old people? I would think that by making comment /remarks along that line they may feel a bit superior for a moment until they wanted to be fed /showered / changed etc.

Santa · Guru

dorian wrote:
Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.
Let me see if I understand what you're saying. The oldies are honest, outspoken, unabashed racists while the "woke brigade" are hypocritical, silent racists?

Morning dorian.

Cathy Newman would be proud of you. biggrin

dorian · Guru

Santa wrote:
dorian wrote:
Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.
Let me see if I understand what you're saying. The oldies are honest, outspoken, unabashed racists while the "woke brigade" are hypocritical, silent racists?
Morning dorian.
Cathy Newman would be proud of you.

I have no interest in what Cathy Newman has to say. If I've misinterpreted you as an apologist for old racists, then please clarify your position.

Mike Harding · Guru

In my experience racism is normal in all the cultures of which I have experience, all that varies is the direction and extent of it.

Ask a few Chinese what they think of Black Africans.

Ask Palestinians what they think of Jordanians.

Ask Saudis what they think of Yeminies.

Ask non ethnic Malays what they think of ethnic Malays.

We are a tribal species, indeed small children are predisposed to the faces of people of their own culture.

----

If I were in a nursing home I'd be happy to be cared for by a Chinese or Nepali but less keen on an American, British or Australian person as the former cultures respect age far more than the latter who are, generally, contemptuous of it.

Incidentally: the Nepalese are generally a delightful, happy and kind people. And *never* mess with a Gurkha!

smwhiskey · Senior Member

dorian wrote:
The 'elephant in the room' of racism in Australia's aged care homes:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/racism-in-aged-care-widespread-issue-in-australian-services/102119404

The surprising bit about this story is even though the woke brigade have shouted "There shall be no racism", they now seem totally surprised that its still exists. It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that mere words are not going to eliminate 200+ years of racial hatred and generational indoctrination overnight.

Simon

Aussie1 · Guru

Santa wrote:
dorian wrote:
Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.
Let me see if I understand what you're saying. The oldies are honest, outspoken, unabashed racists while the "woke brigade" are hypocritical, silent racists?
Morning dorian.
Cathy Newman would be proud of you.

Geez, That shiela could talk under water with a mouth full of marbles.

Mike Harding · Guru

The original whole interview is well worth watching:

Jordan Peterson & Cathy Newman

Jordan Peterson is one of the foremost social thinkers of our time.

Cuppa · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.

Do you think that what the article says isn't true?

Aussie1 · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
The original whole interview is well worth watching:
Jordan Peterson & Cathy Newman
Jordan Peterson is one of the foremost social thinkers of our time.

Thanks for that Mike, it was refreshing hear it all with him actually getting his points across. Albeit with her interrupting simply to make unsubstantiated (her opinions) statements.

Cuppa · Guru

smwhiskey wrote:
dorian wrote:
The 'elephant in the room' of racism in Australia's aged care homes:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/racism-in-aged-care-widespread-issue-in-australian-services/102119404

The surprising bit about this story is even though the woke brigade have shouted "There shall be no racism", they now seem totally surprised that its still exists. It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that mere words are not going to eliminate 200+ years of racial hatred and generational indoctrination overnight.
Simon

Do you think it shouldn't be spoken of?

Plain Truth · Guru

It would be nice to read all the article.

aged care.JPG

smwhiskey · Senior Member

Cuppa wrote:
smwhiskey wrote:
dorian wrote:
The 'elephant in the room' of racism in Australia's aged care homes:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/racism-in-aged-care-widespread-issue-in-australian-services/102119404

The surprising bit about this story is even though the woke brigade have shouted "There shall be no racism", they now seem totally surprised that its still exists. It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that mere words are not going to eliminate 200+ years of racial hatred and generational indoctrination overnight.
Simon

Do you think it shouldn't be spoken of?

What shouldn't be spoken of? The inherent racism ingrained in all aspects of Australian society or the narrow minded people who just expect the elimination of racism to happen overnight with little or no understanding of just how deeply ingrained some hatreds run.

Things are changing but as the old saying goes...It will happen, it just won't happen overnight.

Cuppa · Guru

smwhiskey wrote:
Cuppa wrote:

The surprising bit about this story is even though the woke brigade have shouted "There shall be no racism", they now seem totally surprised that its still exists. It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that mere words are not going to eliminate 200+ years of racial hatred and generational indoctrination overnight.
Simon

Do you think it shouldn't be spoken of?
What shouldn't be spoken of? The inherent racism ingrained in all aspects of Australian society or the narrow minded people who just expect the elimination of racism to happen overnight with little or no understanding of just how deeply ingrained some hatreds run.
Things are changing but as the old saying goes...It will happen, it just won't happen overnight.

'The inherent racism ingrained in all aspects of Australian society.' Thanks, you have answered my question. & I agree with what you have said, perhaps without the jibe at folk whom the some like to label as 'Woke'. Just as with racism, which comes in all shapes & sizes so to do those who would like it to be otherwise. I make that point, not to you specifically, but to others here who have at times made it quite clear that they equate anti racism with wokeism. Clearly it isn't & that term which is so easily thrown around as a put down or as a term of abuse is nothing more than that these days. A means of 'otherising' those who do not share the views of the person using it. To suggest that all who might be called woke are the same (narrow minded for example) is a generalisation about a sector of our society, just as racism is.

Plain Truth · Guru

fire alarm.JPG

Cuppa · Guru

Plain Truth · Guru

Thank goodness for that,Cuppa

RickJ · Senior Member

Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.
The ABC has taken it upon themselves to become a platform for the downtrodden and minority groups, there was a time when they could be relied on to present the unvarnished facts, no longer the case, everything they publish seems to have a degree of spin.
Not my ABC.

So very true Santa.

Racism exists and will continue to exist in many societies today.

Maybe not so much brought about by pure isolation of people habitating distant countries and we having fear of those distant people but more brought about today by just plain old anti social actions by different breeds of people towards others and this anti social behaviour being accepted by some and not by others.

Most of our elderly who may have held deep hatred for other races that murdered ours or their family members during world wars and other conflicts have all but died off.

An uncle or father was shot dead during conflict by a Japanese soldier or was held in Changi POW camp would bring hatred toward all Japanese people from that mans family and friends and the fact that the Japanese were the aggressor on a world scale created that hatred.

We like to call this hatred of a race of people racism, so be it, call it what you like, but the word racism conjures up a lot more reaction than does any other description.

On todays standard a wife and mother sister and daughter was stabbed to death during a home invasion but some expect that the entire family should forgive and embrace the nationality of the perpetrator because the ABC tells us that we should not accept racism. In a perfect world that may happen but out here in the real world it wont and it never will.

A man of Philippine origin was found guilty of the death several aged care residents caused by him setting fire to the aged care facility. I would like to know the thought of those survivors in aged care and the families affected by this action.

There are millions of examples but until as a human race we all become perfect with our actions toward each other there will always cries of racism as it is a better reactive word than dislike or hatred.

It wont even begin to stop while we have the likes of the ABC promoting these stories and also promoting conflict if only in Australia between indigenous and European settlers.

Get used to it as it wont stop.

-- Edited by RickJ on Wednesday 22nd of March 2023 10:13:25 AM

Gundog · Guru

Cuppa wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.

Do you think that what the article says isn't true?

No and Yes

Why you may ask? It's because you can find racism everywhere in the world if you want to look hard enough. But the ABC goes to great lengths to generalize the story, is racism the norm across the entire aged care industry, or is this an isolated case.

Unfortunatly news reporting today is devoid of facts and strong on opinion, point in question the media has taken the mantle for the Yes case for the Voice, yet if you question or support the No case then you are branded a racist.

The mainstream media are pack followers, point in example a Victorian Liberal MLC was branded a NAZI by section of the federal govt, State govt and the bulk of the media because the opposition leader of Vics knee jerk reaction to string of events unrelated, The MLC was part of an event for let women speak, an opposing group of transrights prosters were separated from the Let Women Speak group by lines of police, when a group of ultra right wing wankers marched with their arms outstreached in the Nazi salute and took position behind and to the side of the womens group. All these women were there to try reclaim their identity women no obscure titles as berthing persons etc etc, and to stand up for womens sport to stop trans males identifing as females to participate.

I'll bet you london to a brick not one of those accusers will apoligise to her, now they have been proven wrong, the PM and AG are the worst scumbags of all for their insulting remarks in parliment.

peter67 · Guru

Spot on Gundog.

Cuppa · Guru

RickJ wrote:
Santa wrote:
Oldies are very much a product of their era, nothing you can do to change them, they will say what they think, unlike the woke brigade who are afraid to utter a word for fear of giving offense, time will take care of the problem.
The ABC has taken it upon themselves to become a platform for the downtrodden and minority groups, there was a time when they could be relied on to present the unvarnished facts, no longer the case, everything they publish seems to have a degree of spin.
Not my ABC.
So very true Santa.
Racism exists and will continue to exist in many societies today.
Maybe not so much brought about by pure isolation of people habitating distant countries and we having fear of those distant people but more brought about today by just plain old anti social actions by different breeds of people towards others and this anti social behaviour being accepted by some and not by others.
Most of our elderly who may have held deep hatred for other races that murdered ours or their family members during world wars and other conflicts have all but died off.
An uncle or father was shot dead during conflict by a Japanese soldier or was held in Changi POW camp would bring hatred toward all Japanese people from that mans family and friends and the fact that the Japanese were the aggressor on a world scale created that hatred.
We like to call this hatred of a race of people racism, so be it, call it what you like, but the word racism conjures up a lot more reaction than does any other description.
On todays standard a wife and mother sister and daughter was stabbed to death during a home invasion but some expect that the entire family should forgive and embrace the nationality of the perpetrator because the ABC tells us that we should not accept racism. In a perfect world that may happen but out here in the real world it wont and it never will.
A man of Philippine origin was found guilty of the death several aged care residents caused by him setting fire to the aged care facility. I would like to know the thought of those survivors in aged care and the families affected by this action.
There are millions of examples but until as a human race we all become perfect with our actions toward each other there will always cries of racism as it is a better reactive word than dislike or hatred.
It wont even begin to stop while we have the likes of the ABC promoting these stories and also promoting conflict if only in Australia between indigenous and European settlers.
Get used to it as it wont stop.

-- Edited by RickJ on Wednesday 22nd of March 2023 10:13:25 AM

But when a white Australian is guilty of any of the crimes you list he or she is bad, a criminal who deserves the to be punished by law. Not all white Australians are bad.

Yes racism exists, yes we are all used to it, especially those on the receiving end, but it doesn't make it right, & it doesn't give anyone the right to be racist & so long as it unfairly targets innocent people it remains unacceptable. Being an apologist for racism by saying we should get used to it as it won't stop is about as sensible as saying there will always be murders & that we should just get used to it as it wont stop. But no-one says that because there is general agreement that murder is unacceptable. Well so is racism.

msg · Guru

Cuppa wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.

Do you think that what the article says isn't true?

Biased.

Or, making a story to fit the narrative.

Or, a beat up of the older generation.

I have experienced the "caring" issues that the old people have to deal with.

The other thing they blamed the patients with dementia. How can you hold people with dementia to account when they aren't even in their right mind and by inference, apply that attitude to the general population.

These are the type of articles that make me absolutely exasperated with the ABC and I don't even bother to watch, listen or read their articles.

RickJ · Senior Member

As I indicated above, it is how the word Racist becomes more emotionally charged than does words like unapproved and dislike etc.

In essence the emotion still exists in any debate regarding the differing beliefs and views of varying tribal origins however the term racist is generally only used in a debate for the support of one side or view.

For example those indigenous and those who are in support of The Voice claim anyone with an opposing view is a racist.
If a crime is committed by an indigenous individual and then any comment is claimed as racist if that fact is mentioned.
Probably no need to say anymore as it is so blatantly obvious how the terminology works.

Cuppa · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Another ABC beat up, you can get the story you want if you ask the question that will get you the answer you want, typical ABC.

Do you think that what the article says isn't true?
No and Yes
Why you may ask? It's because you can find racism everywhere in the world if you want to look hard enough. But the ABC goes to great lengths to generalize the story, is racism the norm across the entire aged care industry, or is this an isolated case.
_____________________________________________
I have no doubt that it is a widespread issue, & not just the odd isolated case.
Why do I think this? ...because the reporting mirrored what I have previously observed with my own eyes when working in psychogeriatric facilities years ago & from talking to non white friends who have worked in aged care. It is not isolated, & it does relate to a combination of common generational beliefs & diminished self control in the case of many forms of dementia.
It is something I hope will lessen with future generations as the move into aged care but going on some of the views expressed by the 'getting older' cohort of folk on this forum it could still be an issue for quite some time to come.
Not all folk from older generations are racist, far from it, but it is more common to find it in todays older rather than younger folk.
Nevertheless, whoever it comes from it remains hurtful & damaging in many ways to non deserving folk on the receiving end.
I think my main point is that I disagree with you that the ABC has gone 'to great lengths to generalise the story'. I'm not sure how either of us can prove our view to the other, but I have seen it enough to know it is not 'just' isolated incidents. And I also think that once identified any reasonable person would agree that whatever steps that can be taken to put an end to it should be.
There is no reasonable argument for accepting something bad just because it happens a lot. That's why we have laws, for example, against many things that folk do which hurt others. Theft, violence, slander, & defamation etc. What argument could possibly exist which justify any of those things on the basis of race? When such things come to light there are two parts to the story. The actions & the effect of the actions. I consider that if our national broadcaster is made aware of such things occurring that it would be irresponsible of them to say nothing. I can't help feeling that entwined in this discussion there is also a bit of ABC bashing - once again along the lines of political affiliations.

I have not responded to the rest of your post because I feel it became racism apologism linked to anti ABC views more generally, & not directly related to the topic. I accept that those views are held & disagree with them, but don't see a lot of point of chasing that one around the bush again.

Cuppa · Guru

RickJ wrote:
As I indicated above, it is how the word Racist becomes more emotionally charged than does words like unapproved and dislike etc.

In essence the emotion still exists in any debate regarding the differing beliefs and views of varying tribal origins however the term racist is generally only used in a debate for the support of one side or view.

For example those indigenous and those who are in support of The Voice claim anyone with an opposing view is a racist.
If a crime is committed by an indigenous individual and then any comment is claimed as racist if that fact is mentioned.
Probably no need to say anymore as it is so blatantly obvious how the terminology works.

Much of what you say has to do with the preconceived perceptions folk hold. Some expect to be labelled racist, some know they are racist & are quick to deny it by accusing their accuser. Similarly some folk are too quick to call racist. Me I will call racist when it's blatantly obvious (to me), or when support is extended to what are clearly racist actions. I have learned not to jump in with accusations of racism too quickly because many racists like to go fishing, ready with denials which no-one can sustainably dispute.

Thus if I label behaviour as racist, it is the behaviour & not the person which is labelled, & I hope that will only occur on the basis of evidence. Online that evidence is in the form of what is written, sometimes what is written can be interpreted incorrectly - if I am ever guilty of that, the explanation of why I am incorrect should be politely given for me to consider & to apologise if I think the advice is on balance correct. Hopefully it wont be necessary. What often happens in that sort of situation however is that the person who's behaviour is labelled as racist responds with personal attacks. It's pretty much a no brainer that when that occurs that there was racism involved in & that personal attack is the racists only means of trying to save face. They might just as well admit to the racism then, but that would be very rare.

I guess what I'm talking about is respect ....... for each other, & I'm posting this now because, although still wary, my perception is that we may be disagreeing in this thread, but we are doing it without getting nasty. At risk of sounding patronising (not intended) .... that hasn't always been the case.

I have zero interest in hurting or trying to hurt others. I do, because of my empathic nature, have a great interest in doing whatever I can to call out racism in the hope of reducing it whenever I can. It takes energy to do so, so I guess I choose when to engage, to compliment my energy levels at the time. Ignoring occasions of racism does not for a moment mean I condone it.

Some proudly proclaim their racism - & those folk are worthy of the weight of the law coming down on their shoulders IMO.

I certainly don't consider that opposing the Voice is inherently racist, but I also have no doubt that some who oppose it do so for racist reasons, whether or not they acknowledge that. I think we all know that racism is a very difficult topic, often easily deniable, but still persisting.

In the example cited about the murder of the bottleshop worker in a concurrent thread - the person who did it was a murderer. Does it make a difference whether they were a black or a white murderer? Was the murder one committed as a racist act or was it about someone deranged enough by their addiction to alcohol to commit the crime. If knowing the murderer's race adds nothing to the story other than to create a slur upon an entire race it is racist. If it is specifically relevant to the story then that context should be included in the story. Simple!

Just so you know where I stand on the issue - I consider the definition of racism pretty simple. If anyone generalises about a person or people on the basis of their race, then they are displaying racism. It is too easy to be dismissive of others on the basis of skin colour or where they come from, or the language they speak etc etc. but I think we all know that whilst there are differing cultural norms that everyone is an individual who deserves to be treated as the person they are & not simply lumped together with eveyone else who has the same skin colour, language or place of origin.

Before anyone tries to twist this & suggests that on that basis aboriginal folk should therefore not need 'The Voice' I agree that they should not if we lived in a perfect world where everyone extended due respect to others, but we don't, & in Australia aboriginal peoples have been 'given' a special place, by virtue of having been treated, as a race, far more poorly than any other for far too long. Just as women were treated as second class to men for too long (& still are by some - both by some men & the still male dominated hierarchies in our society). Women fought for their rights & we have all come a long way & still have a way to go. An important part of that journey to date has been legislation enabling those changes. The Voice is similarly an important part of the journey for another group of downtrodden people in our society - Aboriginals. The Voice, claimed by it's opponents to be racist is no more racist that legislation to support women was sexist. Although a few diehards may still wish that the place of women were in the kitchen & bedroom & the shortest distance in between, most more enlightened among us can recognise that it is not just women who have benefitted from their emancipation, but rather the benefit has been to both sexes. I believe the same can be the case between black & white & that the Voice is an opportunity we should all embrace for all our sakes. I don't neccessarily expect agreement on that, but I do appreciate being able to state my views without being attacked or labelled for doing so.

One final thought is simply to notice that you described the word racist as 'emotionally charged'.

Your doing so reminded me of something else I have noticed creeping into discussions on the forum in recent times, (not this one I might add).

It is the use of the word 'emotional', not so much the word itself, but rather the way it has been used. It has appeared to become a weaponised word by one or two folk, distinctly noticeable on the occasions when it has been used as a 'put down' in situations where the post being responded to has not been in the slightest bit emotional. It has appeared (to me) that it has been used in a manner which seeks to infer that being emotional is somehow a sign of weakness & that that somehow gives reason to dismiss what the person to whom it is applied has said. Along the lines of 'Settle down diddums, don't be so silly'. Quite amusing really when there has been no 'emotion' communicated. But it is disrespectful.

-- Edited by Cuppa on Wednesday 22nd of March 2023 03:22:21 PM