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Post Info TOPIC: David Grusch - UFO Whistleblower


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RE: David Grusch - UFO Whistleblower


I am not desperate to believe anything Santa, but I do have an open mind. I am fully aware of the disinformation spread by Government agencies about anything that could lead to a threat to security however.

Have a listen to the podcasts and what the former astronauts have to say. The issue about seeing reflections is also covered. The astronaut acknowledged the jettisoned rockets, the sun glare but also stated there was another object there.

It wouldn't matter what evidence was put to some people. They just refuse to accept the possibility and will accept everything a government agency tells them. That is their choice. They have a lot more difficulty conning the younger generations however. They just don't listen and accept blindly. 



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Claims Made By UFO Whistleblower David Grusch Are Pure Science Fiction

UFO fever has been sweeping through the internet in the wake of explosive claims made by UFO whistleblower David Grusch, a former military intelligence official and Air Force veteran who says the U.S. government is in possession of alien spacecraft.

 
 

Grusch recently appeared on NewsNation to elaborate on his claims, interviewed by journalist Ross Coulthart.

 

The past few years have seen the fringe beliefs of UFO enthusiasts spread from The Joe Rogan Experience to the New York Times and the Guardian, imbuing UFO mythology with a newfound sense of legitimacy.

During his NewsNation interview, Grusch offered no evidence for his extraordinary claims, but said that his information comes from several sources. Grusch confirmed that he had not personally seen any of the alleged alien spacecraft, but has seen some interesting photos and read some very interesting reports.

 

UFO skeptic Mick West released an excellent response video to Gruschs interview that delves into the details of his claims. Notably, many of Gruschs claims contain illogical assumptions, popularized by science fiction tropes.

While science fiction can offer a glimpse into an imagined future, the genre often reflects the cultural anxieties and technological limitations of the time period in which it is conceived.

What are Gruschs claims?

Grusch claims that the United States is in possession of multiple vehicles or spacecraft constructed by a "non-human intelligence" and that their existence is being concealed from the public.

Grusch says that these spacecraft have either landed or crashed on Earth, and that both the U.S. government and defense contractors are currently working to reverse-engineer the technology.

Extraordinarily, Grusch even claimed that some of the vehicles contained the bodies of pilots, and that some of the spacecraft were very large, like a football field kinda size.

Grusch stated that the vehicles were not necessarily extraterrestrial, and speculated that they might come from another dimension, stating, as somebody who studied physics, where maybe theyre coming from a different physical dimension, as described in quantum mechanics.

Grusch described the vehicles as being composed of extremely strange, heavy, atomic metal, you know, high up at the periodic table, arrangements that we dont understand.

Grusch hinted that some of the alien beings were malevolent, and had even killed humans. Grusch also implied that there is some kind of secret agreement between the government and aliens, and that people have been murdered to protect the secret.

Grusch claimed that he was taking great personal risk and obvious professional risk by speaking to the media.

Why is this science fiction?

Lets start with the claim that these vehicles have crash-landed on Earth.

Whether one believes that said vehicles are extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional in origin, it is an extraordinary leap of logic to assume that they are janky enough to crash, let alone with the frequency that Grusch and other UFO enthusiasts claim.

Star Wars, Star TrekFuturama, and Rick and Morty all frequently depict spaceships that crash-land, for the sake of narrative, rather than logic.

A crash forces the characters into a difficult situation, perhaps marooned on a hostile world, or forced to engage with alien inhabitants; it is a widely used trope because it sparks drama.

However, if one assumes that alien life is advanced enough to design vehicles capable of prolonged periods of space travel (or inter-dimensional travel), then why are they crashing like drunk teenagers?

Indeed, why would these vehicles be piloted at all?

Humanity is advanced enough to design automated drones, but we rarely see drones being deployed by aliens in fiction, simply because it would be underwhelming. We want stories in which humanity encounters alien beings in the flesh; its just not fun to imagine an automated invasion, even if it might be more logical.

Gruschs claims rely on the assumption that advanced technology doesnt really advance at all; crashes occur so frequently that we can collect fallen ships like trading cards, and that some contain bodies, like the space jockey from Alien.

UFO enthusiasts often assume that our civilization is capable of recognizing unfathomably advanced technology, and attempting to reverse-engineer it. Again, these assumptions echo popular science fiction tropes.

Remember the much-mocked finale of Independence Day, in which an alien invasion is thwarted by a virus sent from a Mac PowerBook? That was a silly plot twist, based on the idea that the technology of the 90s was compatible with that of an advanced alien species capable of interstellar travel.

Yet, that goofy blockbuster logic is being credulously repeated by Grusch and other UFO enthusiasts.

Imagine, if you will, a medieval peasant stumbling upon a Mac PowerBook. The device would be completely unfathomable, indistinguishable from magic, even to the best and brightest minds of that time period.

None would even be able to recognize its function, let alone reverse-engineer it. So, why would we assume that we could grasp the complexities of an inter-dimensional spacecraft?

Of course, theres also the awkward fact that so many people on the planet now carry high-definition cameras in their pockets, and yet, UFO footage is always a grainy, blurry mess.

Lastly, Gruschs claims of a vast, insidious cover-up, so secret that others have been murdered to protect it, is undermined by the fact he has been given a platform to broadcast these claims.

The legendary astronomer Carl Sagan often said that he would love to see evidence of advanced alien life, but always emphasized the importance of critical thinking. Sagan famously stated, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Grusch has provided no evidence for his claims, which are suspiciously close to common science fiction tropes, and should be recognized as such.

If the truth really is out there, it is unlikely to follow the logic of fiction.



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An interesting discussion.

I watched a documentary about another matter that causes interesting discussion about its existence or otherwise, the Loch Ness monster, yesterday

It centred around a scientist from the Uni of Otago taking water samples and testing for DNA, to show what lived in the Loch, in an attempt to prove or disprove Nessies existence.

While it ended up not doing that, as he didnt find any possible reptilian DNA, he couldnt state categorically Nessie didnt exist, as DNA degrades over a few days in the water.

As he said, to prove a negative theory, ie Nessie doesnt exist, is difficult, as proof of non existence is difficult to find, and the absence of such proof means their is some chance, no matter how small, that the thing does in fact exist.

I think that is a reasonable comparison to the UFO discussion here. Perhaps there is no proof of existence but there has certainly been no proof presented of non existence, and thus, they may be out there.

As a side comment, many years ago when I played U19 football, at training one night, during a training drill, 3 of us stopped dead as we saw several fast moving lights move across the sky, and disappear as quickly as they appeared. The coach was not impressed, and laughed when we explained why we stopped dead in our tracks. I still think we are not alone in this universe.

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Gundog, the bloke that wrote that is a sceptic. That's what they always say, where is his scientific proof that David Grusch is lying.

Consider this if you would. Grusch has given sworn evidence to the Intelligence Director who has found his statement both urgent and credible. If Grusch was lying under oath he goes to gaol. If he releases any evidence he has to anyone other than someone who has the necessary security classification as does the Intelligence Director and a handful of congressional people he is in breach of his disclosure conditions attributed to his role in intelligence and likewise he goes to gaol.

Why do you think the intelligence Director and the Congressional Committee going to all this trouble if it could be simply explained by a sceptic. These guys that are speaking out are senior intelligence officers and senior military people. Do you really think that two admirals and many high ranking officers are just liars and don't know what they are witnessing and need some sceptic to define logic to them.

Not everyone has spent a life of taking orders and doing and believing everything they are told. Some people actually have an opinion and don't accept everything a government agency or sceptic may tell them.



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I put this in the same basket as the Wn flu.

Many here chucked a hissy fit, when I spoke up about the overreaction unnecessary restrictions put on us, none of which was based on medical evidence because 7 chief health officers never released thier evidence save one the Federal CHO. The same as the on job on vaccines, they don't stop you from getting it nor transmitting it, vaccine's were never tested properly before they put into circulation.

There are still workers today who cannot return to work because states refuse remove the restrictions. They didn't care about people who lost their businesses or debt some were forced int incurre.

The burden of proof is not upon those challenging the whistle-blower but its his responsibility to show his evidence.

As for the US Congressional  Committee's what a joke, their track record is questionable at best just look at the so called Jan 6 riots.



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It is not the same committee Gundog. This was set up after the legislation was passed last year. They dont have the same committee for every issue. You believe what you like. It wouldnt matter what was placed in front of you or how often the issue was explained, you just dont get it.

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DMaxer wrote:

I am not desperate to believe anything Santa, but I do have an open mind. I am fully aware of the disinformation spread by Government agencies about anything that could lead to a threat to security however.

Have a listen to the podcasts and what the former astronauts have to say. The issue about seeing reflections is also covered. The astronaut acknowledged the jettisoned rockets, the sun glare but also stated there was another object there.

It wouldn't matter what evidence was put to some people. They just refuse to accept the possibility and will accept everything a government agency tells them. That is their choice. They have a lot more difficulty conning the younger generations however. They just don't listen and accept blindly. 


 I hear what you say DMaxer.

I am open minded, when someone comes up with evidence that these sightings are alien craft I'll be the among first to change my mind.

As far as "disinformation spread by Government agencies" is concerned, I have no real interest, conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen, the Americans excel at dreaming them up, and we Aussies are not far behind.

"difficulty conning the younger generation" had a smile at this, they will accept almost anything as long as it reaches them via social media.biggrin

 

 

 

 



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Santa.

Moonta, Copper Coast, South Aust.



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Well I guess those former astronauts and current senior military personnel making these claims should just keep quiet and accept the infinite wisdom of a select few on a caravan forum Santa. Reminds me of the difference between genius and stupidity. Genius has its limits.

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@DMaxer, it would be much easier to follow your info if you would post links rather than asking everyone to look for them. I'm really curious about those 2 minutes of silence that are claimed to have been heard (recorded?) by ham operators.

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Hi Dorian. I have read it in various reports but the most recent airing is in the podcast that I named. Just look at 1001 stories and it is the most recent one.

My final point is this. Given that the reports confirming these UAP have come from retired astronauts, current senior military personnel, NASA scientists and current academics, just who would the person or persons have to be for the non believers to accept that UAP are out there. No military personnel have debunked the claims, no scientists have debunked the claims, no academics have debunked the claims. Given that if a politician or world leader would need to rely upon one of these groups to support his or her view, just who would it be that you would believe. I suspect the answer is no one because you will never change your opinion. I think it frightens you too much. If a photo was produced you would call it a fake, any eye witness testimony would be dismissed as a lie, any scientific paper would be a hoax.

I guess if you heard it from a  talk back radio host or on the morning television shows you would then probably start to change your mind. Up until that happening then just deny it, the contemplation that it might be correct is just too frightening for some. 

 



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Gundog, I have an issue with one part of your quote. "Imagine, if you will, a medieval peasant stumbling on a Mac PowerBook"...surely anyone who has ever operated a Mac knows they were designed by Neanderthals.

DMaxer, on a serious note, I sincerely hope there is an intelligent life form arriving soon, because as a race we are the worst thing that ever happened to this planet.

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peter67 wrote:


because as a race we are the worst thing that ever happened to this planet.


 

 

Speak for yourself, I'm not   biggrin

 



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peter67 wrote:

Gundog, I have an issue with one part of your quote. "Imagine, if you will, a medieval peasant stumbling on a Mac PowerBook"...surely anyone who has ever operated a Mac knows they were designed by Neanderthals.



 Peter that is not a quote by but a copy of an article opposing whistle-blower  D G.

But my history in computing sales and repairs, before I exited the industry, I cannot recall anyone asking for Mac, I had a couple brought in for repair but refused to to the repairs.

The funny bit about Mac in the personal computing world it share is less than 25%, in that there is linux, chromeOS, android etc taking a minor segments, likewise in the phone Os IOS has about 31%, .

Brain-dead execs at Apple still won't make facetine calling, compatible with other OS..

 



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Interesting article in the Washington Examiner June 12 2023.

Once again all hearsay, Grusch admits his information is all second hand, says he was not personally part of a UFO exploitation program but rather spoke to numerous people involved with it.

 

 

What should we make of UFO whistleblower David Grusch?

 


 
 
 


David Grusch is a former midranking civilian intelligence officer and Air Force veteran. In July 2021, Grusch filed a whistleblower complaint to the Defense Department's inspector general alleging the existence of a covert public-private sector program to retrieve and exploit crashed, unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, or what the government refers to as unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAPs. Grusch subsequently briefed Congress on his assertions.

Writing for the Debrief last week, Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal documented the broad substance of Grusch's claims. In response, the government and military have continued to deny that they have evidence of any such program existing. Grusch went into more detail on his claims during an interview with journalist Ross Coulthart that aired on NewsNation on Sunday evening. In that interview, Grusch claimed that the United States retains multiple craft originally constructed by a "non-human intelligence" and that the public and Congress are being lied to.

 

What should we make of these extraordinary claims?

First, Grusch's credentials and the Debrief's due diligence in its reporting stand up to at least provisional scrutiny.

Unlike Bob Lazar, a fantasist who claims he attended universities that have no record of him and worked on crashed UFOs near Area 51, Grusch's credentials are legitimate. We know that he served in the Air Force, including in the war in Afghanistan. We know he served with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and then at the National Reconnaissance Office. We know he served as the NRO's liaison to the then-UAP Task Force (now replaced by the All Domain Anomaly Office/AARO). Grusch appears to be well respected by those he served alongside. The Debrief's executive editor, Tim McMillan, has also explained how he examined Grusch's background and what the former Air Force officer was asserting to Kean and Blumenthal.

What Grusch describes about the supposed crash retrieval program also fits with how a project of this kind would have had to operate. That is to say, how a program of such profound import could remain secret over a period of decades. Grusch says that this entails the use of defense contractors and programs hidden within programs designed to limit congressional and executive branch oversight. While many UFOs are actually flares, balloons, or other airborne clutter, it is highly likely that a small subset of UFOs represent an unknown technical capability of unknown origin (i.e., not made in China, the U.S., or Russia). Although I have been unable to confirm it, I believe the U.S. government is in possession of UFO-related materials of exotic design. Grusch's claim that the U.S. has numerous intact crashed vehicles, however?

That's where things become more difficult.

First, the U.S. government and military retain multiple, extremely sensitive programs designed to secure and assess advanced foreign military technologies, including satellites, missile systems, aircraft, and an increasing array of drones. As I've reported, there has sometimes been conflation between these efforts and UFO-related investigations. Equally important, the unwillingness of different U.S. intelligence services to share information with one another means that conspiracy theories are sometimes born in the absence of one agency's understanding as to what is going on in another agency. As with the government's investigation of "Havana Syndrome," the politicization of intelligence analysis can also be an issue..................................................

Second, while Grusch claims certain knowledge of what he alleges, he himself admits that his information is second-hand in nature. Grusch says he was not personally part of a UFO exploitation program but rather spoke to numerous people involved with it. And while Grusch says he has provided Congress with the names and locations of people and efforts related to the program, we are not privy to this information. The divided reaction in Congress to Grusch's claims underlines the broader issue.

While House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer (R-KY) has expressed interest in holding a hearing on Grusch's claims, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Turner (R-OH) has expressed skepticism as to what Grusch is alleging. As a member of the Gang of Eight, Turner receives briefings on the most sensitive U.S. military and intelligence efforts. That he does not appear to believe Grusch would appear to suggest that Grusch's classified testimony to Congress has either not been corroborated or that Turner has not received adequate briefings.

This reflects a deeper concern in relation to the UFO subject and the U.S. government. Namely, that numerous people in the military, intelligence community, and Congress who have the clearances and credible mission-need-to-know about a UFO exploitation program apparently do not know about it. This could be because of the conspiracy that Grusch alleges or because such a program does not exist.

 

 

Still, Congress isn't backing away from the subject. If often behind the scenes, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) and others on the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services committees remain heavily invested in conducting oversight on this. They are taking this action to the considerable frustration of the Pentagon and the intelligence community (though that frustration flows from a belief in these organizations that UFOs are a distraction rather than as part of an effort to mislead Congress).

What we need, then, is to learn what Grusch has told Congress and what follow-on investigations have discovered about what he has said. That said, Grusch's background and credentials are undeniably compelling. He appears to believe what he says. And even if he should not reflexively be believed, he cannot be ignored.



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Santa.

Moonta, Copper Coast, South Aust.



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A lot of posters on here must have been big fans of "Lost in Space" :):):)

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Just ignore them Aussie and keep your head planted in the 1950s where everybody believed everything the government told them.

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DMaxer wrote:

Just ignore them Aussie and keep your head planted in the 1950s where everybody believed everything the government told them.


 

 

 

No need to get personal Cobber. no  Ever heard of "Smile School". You appear to be a candidate  biggrin  Chill Cobber. Cheers.

 



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Marco Rubio is the vice chair of the Select Intelligence Committee too Santa. He was interviewed on Newsweek during the week and spoke of the present investigations. He stated that numerous high ranking military people and civilians with high security clearance have already been interviewed by the Senate Committee over the last two years and have made similar claims as David Grusch.

He stated that although the Senate Committee holds most of these interviews in camera, and they are all classified and therefore confidential, he finds it surprising that no one from the actual military or the Pentagon has come forward to refute these claims. In fact, Grusch was given permission by the Department of Defence to make his claims.

Isn't it surprising that these senior military people and people from defence contracting firms all risking their reputation to make these claims. If they are lying to a Senate investigation it is perjury and that means gaol.

Just watch the groundswell from this. So far the US Government has had about three different explanations for Roswell. All have failed to satisfy the public. If it was just a weather balloon why is the documentation and wreckage still classified after seventy five years you may wonder.



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It's an interesting topic DMaxer, I'll repeat, I'm not close minded, have always had an interest, however, never been convinced by any of the the reports I've seen.

Perhaps one day, although at my stage in life it had better happen soon, times not on my side.biggrin



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Santa.

Moonta, Copper Coast, South Aust.



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Marco Rubio is also a front runner for the Republicans as their Presidential candidate Santa. I imagine if he lifts the lid it wont hurt his chances with the American people as being a person they can trust. Interesting times coming I think.

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I was under the impression that Rubio had ruled out running in 2024.

DeSantis has been anointed by the republicans.

Correct me if I have it wrong.confuse



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Santa.

Moonta, Copper Coast, South Aust.



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I didn't know he had Santa. I heard him a while back talking about it and presumed he was still a contender.

He has a pretty good resume. He was Speaker of the House in Florida and was knocked out by Trump in the election before last.

Given that he is only in his early fifties he has plenty of time. Pretty young for a politician over there.

I don't think he would be so supportive of these inquiries if he thought for one moment he would come out of it looking an idiot for being so bullish about them.

Time will tell.



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The chief of the Canadian military has just released a statement that Canada attended a meeting of Five Eyes convened and held by the director of the US Research into UAP in May 2023.

The Canadian military has refused to say what was discussed only that it is classified.

I imagine it is to discuss the latest in weather balloons or hoaxes. 

 



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If an alien spacecraft fell out of the sky today, we would all know about it.

Australian Space Agency says mystery item on Green Head beach could be part of 'foreign space launch vehicle':

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-17/police-investigate-green-head-beach-mystery-item/102610686



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I recall many years ago when very young at school, a couple of mates were out mucking around at the base of the local mountain. Mucking about in the bullrushes and they flattened a large round area of it.
Some clown spotted it and went to the local paper.
It hit the front page of the local, then it went feral as all the Sydney newspapers ran the alien landing on the front page as well.
Our little country town was then flooded with reporters who all went out and observed where the space craft had landed.
Expert opinions determined it was in fact a flying saucer that had landed there.
The story then went international.
While all this was happening, we young teen mates at school were p*ss*ng ourselves laughing at the whole thing.

This, unlike EVERY alien sighting that has ever been made, is a TRUE story.

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Ron

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