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Santa


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Captain James Cook.
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Not long ago the woke left were trying to erase Cook from our history.

This is a well written article from today's Australian that puts an entirely different perspective on him as a man.

Cook was a hero of our nation, not as some would have us believe a villain.

I hope this post stands, it's a very much neglected part of our history.

 

Captain Cook a giant of the science of his day and a humane and prudent man

James Cook was not only a great mariner and cartographer, and a giant of the science of his day, but a good, humane and prudent man, writes Christopher Allen. Picture National Maritime Museum

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At the very beginning of March it was announced that four Aboriginal fishing spears collected by Captain Cook on his visit to Botany Bay in 1770, donated to Trinity College at Cambridge in 1771 and held since 1914 at the Cambridge Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, were to be returned to a group descended from the tribe that occupied the area more than 250 years ago.

How this was reported was interesting. The BBC had, as usual, a fairly reliable account, although it implicitly refers to Cook and his party as the first colonialists, when of course they were nothing of the sort. Cook was an explorer, and established no colony or permanent base in Australia; the first settlement was not until almost two decades later, 1788.

The article quotes a member of the Aboriginal group as claiming the local people have a deep, spiritual connection with the spears, which are part of a dreaming story that tells us how our people came to be, though they are obviously and primarily practical implements used for spearing fish.

The ABCs coverage was also balanced, noting as mentioned in passing by the BBC that these were the first Aboriginal artefacts ever collected by Europeans, or at any rate the earliest ones that remain extant today. The Guardian Australia unfortunately ran the headline spears stolen by Captain Cook, which rather disqualifies anything else they might have to say, while the Spectator Australia had a more substantial essay in fact the only substantial discussion of the subject so far by the distinguished historian David Abulafia (author of The Great Sea, 2011) arguing the case for retaining them in Cambridge.

One thing that no one mentioned, as far as I can see, was that these spears only exist today because Cook collected them and Cambridge preserved them. Otherwise they would simply have been used until they were broken, discarded and replaced. This is true of most Indigenous artefacts in Australia, including weapons, implements and bark paintings: the only ones that survive from the past are those that were collected by Europeans.

It may seem a surprising fact, but such is the norm in cultures that have no permanent buildings and therefore nowhere to store anything, and which also have no need to keep or preserve artefacts since they are constantly being remade and replaced. As they are, moreover, being replaced by identical artefacts, there is no need to save past ones as examples of an earlier technology.

John Webber, The Death of Captain Cook

All of that changes, however, with the disruption caused by settlement. The stable and ultra-conservative process by which each generation repeats the lives of the previous age and each artefact is replaced with an almost exact replica of the old ones is perturbed, traditions are confused, social roles are undermined and traditional skills are no longer passed on. Today European museums hold many objects that have not been made for generations, and which would be completely unknown if they had not been preserved by modern anthropology. This was recognised by Indigenous elders on the occasion of the National Museums Encounters exhibition of Aboriginal items on loan from the British Museum in 2015-16.

In any case, the confrontation at Botany Bay itself was fairly slight on both sides. The Aboriginals seem to have believed that Cooks ships were vessels filled with dead souls, and were understandably terrified. The British fired to dispel those who were threatening them, but with deliberately non-lethal shot, and no-one was seriously hurt on either side. Cook was later to encounter far more savage behaviour from the Maori in New Zealand.

It is this context that Christopher Heathcotes new book, The Compassion of Captain Cook building on an essay published in Quadrant two years ago (June 2021) sheds new light on Cooks remarkable forbearance. The Indigenous people were, after all, neither enemies nor subjects, but autonomous populations with whom mutual trust had to be established.

Such was also the spirit of the instructions that Cook had received from the Admiralty in regard to the treatment of native peoples, which are quoted in full on p. 25, and include the following injunction: to endeavour, by all proper means to cultivate a friendship with them shewing them every Civility and Regard Further instructions from the Royal Society (quoted on p. 26) go even further, insisting: shedding the blood of those people is a crime of the highest nature. They are human creatures, the work of the same omnipotent Author, under his care with the most polished European

Four Australian Aboriginal spears taken by Lieutenant James Cook in 1770 from Kamay (Botany Bay), are to be repatriated back to Country. Trinity College Cambridge in the United Kingdom has agreed to permanently return the four spears to the La Perouse Aboriginal community.

This is the true Enlightenment spirit, more universal and rational than the theories of the Noble Savage which tended, at the same time, to romanticise native peoples, and far removed from the racist ideologies which only took root much later, partly as a perverse consequence of scientific advances in the theories of natural selection and later modern genetics.

Heathcote is particularly interested in a series of events that occurred while Cook was in New Zealand on his second and third voyages to the South Seas. In December 1773, Cooks second ship, The Adventure, commanded by Commander Tobias Furneaux, was anchored in Queen Charlotte Sound in New Zealand for repairs. On the last day of the stay, Furneaux sent a party of men to forage for fresh food, led by Midshipman James Rowe.

When they did not return, Furneaux sent out a search party commanded by Lieutenant James Burney and including 10 marines. He discovered that Rowe and his men had been massacred, their bodies cut up and cooked, and the flesh divided among various groups, one of which they found still in the act of eating the flesh of their companions. After driving them off, they discovered more cooked body parts bundled up, perhaps to be taken to another community.

Shaken by this horrifying discovery, Furneaux took no further measures against the Maori but ended his mission prematurely and sailed home. Cook put in at Queen Charlottes Sound in 1774 and learned only enough to make him worried about the safety of The Adventure. A few months later he had confirmation from a Dutch ship about a massacre in New Zealand, and then learned of another cannibal killing involving a French vessel in 1772. Meanwhile stories of barbaric cannibals were causing a sensation back in London and in Europe more generally.

 

Captain Cook's HMS Endeavour located after 22 years of searching

It was when Cook returned to Queen Charlotte Sound on his third voyage, in February 1777, that the question of what action to take with the murderers of his crew arose. Cook made it clear that no reprisals would be carried out and gradually discovered more details about the circumstances which had led to the massacre.

Finally, however, a Maori chief named Kahura came to see Cook on 24 February. By now Cook knew that he had been the leader of the massacre and had personally killed Midshipman Rowe. He was also disliked by many other tribal leaders, possibly because he had been involved in another inter-tribal massacre and cannibalism incident since Cooks last visit. Even his interpreter, the young Tahitian Omai who had gone back to London with Furneaux and who was now returning to his homeland with the third voyage, urged Cook to have Kahura put to death.

But Cook once again showed extraordinary forbearance possibly even, as Heathcote notes, at the cost of losing some credibility with the other Maori, who would have expected such a crime to be harshly punished, and who could have taken his clemency for weakness.

Not only did Cook assure Kahura of his safety, but he sealed the reconciliation with the remarkable gesture of inviting the native chief to sit for his portrait, which was executed by John Webber and is today in the Dixon Collection of the State Library of NSW. And thus Heathcote has restored the remarkable story behind what might otherwise be passed over as simply another one of the many pieces of art documenting Cooks voyages.

In a further section of the book, however, Heathcote uses his close study of the primary sources for these events to reveal how easily populist writers and even academic historians can cut corners, conflate events, concertina chronologies and simply misquote their sources sometimes relying on other secondary sources in what can become an increasingly misleading sequence of Chinese whispers.

Kahura, a Ngti Kuia chief, whose men were responsible for the death of 10 of Captain Furneauxs men at Wharehunga Bay in 1773. Picture: John Webber

One of these cases is the story of the trial of the cannibal dog, which gave its picturesque title to a book, Anne Salmonds The Trial of the Cannibal Dog (2004). The facts seem to be that some young midshipmen held a mock trial for a dog acquired from the Maori, killed it and ate it. This was presented in Salmonds book, and since then cited by others, as having taken place on another of Cooks ships, Discovery, at the same time as the meeting with Kahura, as an act of protest against his clemency that verged on insubordination. Heathcote shows that this interpretation was based on a careless reading of the sources and that the trial probably happened months later and possibly even after Cooks murder in the other massacre mentioned in the book, that took place in Hawaii on 14 February 1779.

The other question was what exactly happened when Lieutenant Burney, with his party of marines, discovered evidence of the massacre and encountered the group of cannibals in December 1773. It is certain that he ordered his marines to fire shots to disperse the group, but what weapons and ammunition were used and whether the intention was to kill or merely to inspire fear is much less clear.

Once again Heathcote reveals a pattern of historians repeating or ratcheting up the accounts of previous authors, while failing to look closely at the primary evidence. Thus the most sensationalist accounts imply that a considerable number of the Maori must have been shot, which is not supported by the primary sources. Kahura himself boasted to Cook that none of his people had been hurt in the attack.

There is much more in this short and closely-researched book, but one of its main lessons is the value of a rigorous reading and collation of primary sources, rather than relying on and repeating the conclusions of others. But above all the book reminds us that, in spite of current prejudices, James Cook was not only a great mariner and cartographer, and a giant of the science of his day, but a good, humane and prudent man.

 



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Cuppa


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Santa wrote:

Not long ago the woke left were trying to erase Cook from our history.

_________________________________________________________________

If you thought the article worth reading your invitation beginning with the above was far from inviting. 



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Interesting read.

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Possum3 wrote:

Interesting read.

 

 

X2  Thanks for posting. 



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Thanks people, I thought it had merit.smile



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Santa wrote:

Thanks people, I thought it had merit.smile

 

 

And it does. 



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A very interesting read.

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Thanks people, I thought it had merit.smile

 It is an interesting read, but whether it has merit or not is not possible to discern without at the very least checkable references.

Given that the book is promoted by the likes of Keith Windschuttle & his history manipulating Quadrant online web site, it is not unreasonable to question the motives behind the publication as well  of the veracity of both the 'facts' presented, & the context & interpretation of those 'facts. The author himself is a denialist of aboriginal intergenerational trauma. 



-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 24th of June 2023 12:00:22 PM

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I didn't say it had merit, what I said was "I thought it had merit" my opinion, and I still do.wink

 



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So what makes Keith Windschuttle version of the events in Tasmainia less credible than other versions from other authors, its all a matter of research and how its done.

I assume the woke crowd will discount his version in preference of others that support the opposing view, just like the origional post claiming the 4 spears had signifiance of a  deep spiritual connection with them. How long was the disconnect of the origional inhaditants, was the bloodline uninterupted over the 200 years.

It's all about the narrative that fits your position, regardless of it being fact or fiction.

Generally history is written by conquer not the vanquished, and the version is conflated by time, unless there is credible historical document supporting the events from that period.



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Gundog wrote:

So what makes Keith Windschuttle version of the events in Tasmainia less credible than other versions from other authors, its all a matter of research and how its done.

I assume the woke crowd will discount his version in preference of others that support the opposing view, just like the origional post claiming the 4 spears had signifiance of a  deep spiritual connection with them. How long was the disconnect of the origional inhaditants, was the bloodline uninterupted over the 200 years.

It's all about the narrative that fits your position, regardless of it being fact or fiction.

Generally history is written by conquer not the vanquished, and the version is conflated by time, unless there is credible historical document supporting the events from that period.

      Because he has a proven bias as does Quadrant. 

      You are correct in saying that it's all about narrative fitting position. ie. with position coming before proof/narrative. 

      In today's age of online information truth has become very muddied, with some obviously deliberate attempts made to achieve this.

     Your comment 'unless there is credible historical document supporting the events from that period.' is spot on, & the reason I wrote earlier 'but whether it has merit or not is not possible to discern without at the very least checkable references.'

It is perfectly possible that the Heathcote's story as quoted by Allen is true, but looking at the context in which it is stated at the very least should raise questions of motive.

Bottom line is that many folk simply believe what fits with their world view, which is mostly influenced by the circles they mix in. We are probably all guilty of this to a greater or lesser extent regardless of  the positions we take. Sadly this becomes weaponised by some, in order to dismiss anything which contradicts their world view.  It's a modern affliction which enables fixed views to try to dominate without evidence.

You are Right, I am Left when it comes to world views. I don't consider that this makes you my enemy.  It only means we don't share the same views. It doesn't mean that I have any right to call you or others who share your views derogotary names. Generalised name calling (as in 'the woke crowd) of those with differing views to your own, only seeks to dismiss another's beliefs as unworthy & I suggest says more about the person who chooses to use such language, than it does about the person or people it is aimed at. 

I have been accused of being 'Woke' on this forum before, by others who don't know me. I certainly lean to the left, and am proud of that, but I am not woke in any sense of the word, & I resent it when such labelling is utilised in attempts to dismiss any views I express which are not in line with those who choose to use that term. Everything exists on a continuum, the name calling is part of the 'polarisation' which seeks to create enemies. The world around us is far from black & white & I personally have far more respect for folk whom I may not agree with, but whom seek grey areas, areas of agreement as opposed to trying to prevail over others. Such polarising tactics seem, to me, to be attempts to validate the unsupportable. No doubt tactics used by extremists, but to paint anyone who has a different view as extremist is a 'carpet bombing' approach.  

This is why I see labelling & name calling as not only unreasonable, but also the mark of folk unwilling to accept any other view than their own. Hence my first comment in this thread. 

 

ps. I recognise that even using the terms Right & Left is labelling. I apologise for that & assure you nothing derogotary is intended, however if it causes offence, I would be happy to utilise other mutually acceptable terms if you have any suggestions? 



-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 24th of June 2023 01:53:55 PM

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get in quick lads! i am thinking another thread closing soon

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dogbox wrote:

get in quick lads! i am thinking another thread closing soon

         Only if disrespect is thrown into the mix I reckon.



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dogbox wrote:

get in quick lads! i am thinking another thread closing soon

 I dissagree with you there is no reason to close a thread unless it causes friction.

The looney left youth of the world have lost their sense of humour, classic comedy shows could not be played on tv today, because it may offend their precious feelings.

You would see a massive brain explosion if Charlie Drakes video song "My Boomerang wont Comeback" was played on prime time tv, others like Kingswood Country would cause an uproar.

I can also point out the defacing of Statues or Monuments, is because those who dislike them rewrite the history to support their actions, just like the youth went crazy supporting the BLM movement, the most voilent protest movement, that stemmed from an over reaction by police officers arresting a criminal. Martin Luther King would be horrified of their actions.

You cannot rewrite history to suit the current era, because to understand what we are today is the evolution of the history of our past that makes us better.

 

 



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Spot on Gundog, let's have Billy Cokebottle back too, now there's a guy who told ripper jokes.

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Gundog wrote:
dogbox wrote:

get in quick lads! i am thinking another thread closing soon

 I dissagree with you there is no reason to close a thread unless it causes friction.

The looney left youth of the world have lost their sense of humour, classic comedy shows could not be played on tv today, because it may offend their precious feelings.

You would see a massive brain explosion if Charlie Drakes video song "My Boomerang wont Comeback" was played on prime time tv, others like Kingswood Country would cause an uproar.

I can also point out the defacing of Statues or Monuments, is because those who dislike them rewrite the history to support their actions, just like the youth went crazy supporting the BLM movement, the most voilent protest movement, that stemmed from an over reaction by police officers arresting a criminal. Martin Luther King would be horrified of their actions.

You cannot rewrite history to suit the current era, because "

 

 I expect you might have more supporters of your statement if modified a tad.

Eg. Many have lost their sense of humour,  classic comedy shows could not be played on tv today, because it may offend their precious feelings.

      I for one would agree with that.

      Why offend unnecessarily. Loonies, left or youth? 

     I can still enjoy a bit of the Benny Hill, Charley Drake, Dick Emery, Kenny Everett, the 'Carry-on' movies etc I grew up with, recognising it for what it is.  Some stuff might seem dated & cringeworthy, but if seen in context of the era it came from & with recognition that community values have changed over time I  don't see a problem. 

I expect that those who deface or knock down statues might claim that they are not re-writing history, but are correcting history wrongly written. eg Stating that some who were lauded as heroes were in fact quite the opposite.

As for "to understand what we are today is the evolution of the history of our past that makes us better."  - that I suggest is arguable. How else do we end up with world 'leaders' like Trump & Bolsanaro, & Putin? 



-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 24th of June 2023 03:37:37 PM

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Are We Lost


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Thanks for posting Santa. There is a lot in that article I had not known or considered.

Cuppa, you have made a few comments on this thread. I see many words, yet nothing you have said points to anything that is incorrect or misleading in what Santa posted. All you have said is it may be biased and then cast dispersions about the author and promoter. So is there some fact he wrote about that you dispute?

We have an Article posted on The Australian that essentially is saying the recent negativity towards Cook is unjustified, and pointing to merit worthy actions. Should Cook instead be praised? Would you or have you in the past agreed with Cook's condemnation?



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Are We Lost wrote:

Thanks for posting Santa. There is a lot in that article I had not known or considered.

Cuppa, you have made a few comments on this thread. I see many words, yet nothing you have said points to anything that is incorrect or misleading in what Santa posted. All you have said is it may be biased and then cast dispersions about the author and promoter. So is there some fact he wrote about that you dispute?

We have an Article posted on The Australian that essentially is saying the recent negativity towards Cook is unjustified, and pointing to merit worthy actions. Should Cook instead be praised? Would you or have you in the past agreed with Cook's condemnation?

 I also said "It is perfectly possible that the Heathcote's story as quoted by Allen is true, but looking at the context in which it is stated at the very least should raise questions of motive. 

I have not seen any 'recent negativity towards Cook', nor condemnation of him as a person. I may have missed it, but in the absence of seeing this, I could not help but wonder whether the statement of 'fact, about attacks upon his character was little more than a confection printed as an accepted truth. If I have that wrong, then I expect that you or another member might direct me to the negativity & condemnation referred to?

Of course if the negativity/condemnation refers to what Cook represented, both in terms of an English colonial power and the subsequent colonisation of Australia that is a different matter relevant to the mores of the time, but the article was about his personal character.  

I am certainly saying that it may be biased, & for a reason. Note 'MAY.' I consider it reasonable to alert members to this possibility . I am casting no aspersions, I am suggesting caution is wise when the backgrounding reveals a long association between the Author, the Journalist & an organisation which seeks to deny many histories & to present alternative histories in what it claims to be true, & that Members reading the article might consider it wise to undertake their own due diligence, rather than to simply accept the content as it is presented. 

You yourself in your comment  "There is a lot in that article I had not known or considered." appear (to me at least)  not to question any of it. If that is so, & if even just one assertion in it were untrue the Author, the Journalist & the Newspaper would have succeeded in re-writing history as far as you or anyone else who just accepted the whole article. THAT is how history gets re-written - bit by bit by people with agendas. 

Again if anyone can show me that there has been recent attacks upon the character of Cook, that this article seeks to address I will have to reconsider my thinking on the matter.



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I suspect Cuppa delights in being overly skeptical and even hypercritical, it achieves his goal, perhaps there is even a degree of trolling involved.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing.wink

 

 



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Santa wrote:

I suspect Cuppa delights in being overly skeptical and even hypercritical, it achieves his goal, perhaps there is even a degree of trolling involved.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing.wink

 

 

    Cautiously sceptical yes. Trolling most certainly not.  Hypercritical was Plain Truth's misused word to describe a recent post of mine. Funny how words catch on around here.

    Of course if I have been wrong to be sceptical you would have directed me to the evidence which the article purports to correct ..... wouldn't you? 



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When he suggested I post some of the negative articles about Cook, I thought about it ......

But that would have me posting those articles. Why should I post something I disagree with?

Cuppa, I know you are aware of a groundswell of negativity towards Cook. The petition to remove the Cook statue in Cairns is one I recall. Using his name in relation to change Australia Day is another (and unfounded). The way it works is you post articles like that and then maybe I will critique them. Just as you critiqued the article posted by Santa. But I hope my critique would have more meat to it.

I don't see much of fact, evidence, validation or justification in your posts. If you have negative thoughts on Santa's articles, let's hear them .... but justify those words rather than the unsupported wordage you normally post.

Santa made the post which appears cohesive and believable to me. It comes from The Australian and while all media is biased one way or another, they are not usually in the habit of printing outright lies. Omitting facts .... sure I could believe that, from the left or the right, but rarely direct lies. So unless shown to be false my thoughts are to treat the article as true. It's not my job to justify it.



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 24th of June 2023 07:49:00 PM

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Are We Lost wrote:

When he suggested I post some of the negative articles about Cook, I thought about it ......

But that would have me posting those articles. Why should I post something I disagree with?

Cuppa, I know you are aware of a groundswell of negativity towards Cook. The petition to remove the Cook statue in Cairns is one I recall. Using his name in relation to change Australia Day is another (and unfounded). The way it works is you post articles like that and then maybe I will critique them. Just as you critiqued the article posted by Santa. But I hope my critique would have more meat to it.

I don't see much of fact, evidence, validation or justification in your posts. If you have negative thoughts on Santa's articles, let's hear them .... but justify those words rather than the unsupported wordage you normally post.

Santa made the post which appears cohesive and believable to me. It comes from The Australian and while all media is biased one way or another, they are not usually in the habit of printing outright lies. Omitting facts .... sure I could believe that, from the left or the right, but rarely direct lies. So unless shown to be false my thoughts are to treat the article as true. It's not my job to justify it.



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 24th of June 2023 07:49:00 PM

 AWL, I'm sorry but you don't know what I am aware of & not aware of, other than what I have told you........  I have been 100% truthful in telling you what I have told you. If there was a petition to remove Cook's statue I was not aware of that.  I suspect that it would have been to remove something that some folk may have associated with invasion. Personally that is not something I would support as history records that it was not Cook personally who invaded Australia.  The point however is that unless the attempted removal of the Statue (was it successful? Where was or is it?) was on the basis of Cook being a bad individual then my concern about the article remains. Please feel free to direct me to the petition to see it for myself  via PM if you don't wish to post it here. 

As for linking Cook to changing the date of Australia Day, a change I am sure you wont be surprised that I support, again does this have to do with Cooks character or again a mistaken link to the date that Australia was claimed on behalf of England? It was Captain Arthur Philip who did his duty, the ritual of planting the Union Jack & claiming the land of the Gadigal Peoples of the Eora Nation as a British Colony. 

I don't need, nor intend to try to argue about evidence - that would only prove to be rather pointless. I have already explained why I posted as I did. I guess you can label that however you wish, but it won't change what I've said about that article .... which wasn't Santa's btw. (I'm not playing 'shoot the messenger here ). Santa made a post predominantly of someone else's words which are well put together & believable. Quite reasonably on his part. You might also note that I have not tried to assert that Cook is anything other than how he is described in that article. I couldn't because I don't know. I hope that he is portrayed accurately, god knows we have enough lauded historical figures who were complete bastards, it would be good to know that Cook was not one of them.

My focus as already outlined is upon what appears to me to be a backhanded assertion that Cook himself has been wrongly portrayed to be a bad character, & that this article seeks to redress that. That I still have seen no evidence of belief anywhere that he was a bad character makes me think that the article is essentially trying to accuse others of something fictitious. Basically I am repeating myself here in the hope that you might be able to understand where I'm coming from rather than simply labelling me as 'the other side.  

Regarding your comment that I 'normally post unsupported wordage', you are entitled to your opinion, but again I'm sure it won't surprise you to hear that I don't share it. Making that assertion is both unnecessary & unwelcome.  Please note that I do not respond in kind. 

 

Ps. Re. "It's not my job to justify it" .  Agreed, No one has been asked to justify the article. All that has occurred is that I have asked those who have accepted it as all true, having been informed of my concern to show me reason why I should discount my concern. There is no reason to respond to me in an adversarial manner.  



-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 24th of June 2023 09:10:35 PM

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Cuppa, Please consider your words a little more carefully, because to me they very often come across as adversarial and invite a similar response.

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dorian


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Are We Lost wrote:

When he suggested I post some of the negative articles about Cook, I thought about it ......

But that would have me posting those articles. Why should I post something I disagree with?

If the "woke left" are being accused of denigrating Cook, then their accuser(s) should cite appropriate references so that we can see them for ourselves. To me, this accusation has the feeling of a setup designed to support a straw man argument.

As for the spears, I can agree with the arguments for retaining them, as they appear to have been freely given. However, there can be no denying that the country was subsequently stolen by Cook's compatriots. That's what the "woke left" remind us every Australia Day.



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Santa


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"Hypercritical was Plain Truth's misused word to describe a recent post of mine. Funny how words catch on around here."

I have no knowledge of a post in which Plain Truth used the term Hypercritical, perhaps the fact that two individuals have used the term independently in reference to your posting style may be cause for reflection on your part.  



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Cuppa


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Santa wrote:

"Hypercritical was Plain Truth's misused word to describe a recent post of mine. Funny how words catch on around here."

I have no knowledge of a post in which Plain Truth used the term Hypercritical, perhaps the fact that two individuals have used the term independently in reference to your posting style may be cause for reflection on your part.  

 I wish I had thought to use the terminology of 'straw man argument' as Dorian has used. It is a succinct & accurate description of the concern I have tried to raise about the Cook article in question.

As suggested I have reflected on my posts, & concluded that the use of the term 'hypercritical' in this thread & in this other thread is inaccurate & that the use of the term is itself both needlessly defensive & hypercritical, & thus unwarranted in both cases. 

'Critical' would have been accurate & I believe, warranted. 

 

 



-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 25th of June 2023 10:42:44 AM

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dogbox


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you can not change history but you can rewrite it, from another view point. what happened 200+ years ago still happened but societies values as to what is was acceptable then may not be considered acceptable in this day and age, what we do now in our lifetimes may not be considered acceptable at some point in the future.

"Captain Cook was a giant of the science of his day and a humane and prudent man" which is how the original item was posted

the term WOKE was not even around in the form that it is being used today, an there seem to be a number of ways it can be used and interpreted






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Bobdown


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Why do you have a black map of Australia, Cuppa?

Do you want people to know how you are going to vote or something?

Very divisive IMO ............

Edit: Just saw Cupie's post in Just Joking, a straight answer would not be discussing it Cuppa.



-- Edited by Bobdown on Sunday 25th of June 2023 01:10:25 PM

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Santa


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Bobdown wrote:

Why do you have a black map of Australia, Cuppa?

Do you want people to know how you are going to vote or something?

Very divisive IMO ............

 I'm wondering what happened to the previous avatar?

 



-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 25th of June 2023 01:11:25 PM



-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 25th of June 2023 02:10:18 PM



-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 25th of June 2023 02:10:39 PM

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Gundog


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Most likely Cuppa was requested to change his avatar, just like I was. But I also wondered about his choice of a black map of Australia, but its not very subtle.

Even in the Jokes section theres a problem.



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