Any Poms about?

Basher · Senior Member

Any Poms about?

rgren2 · Guru

DMaxer · Guru

It seems funny that if everyone seems to think it was all OK then why do the media keep bombarding us everyday with criticism of the Poms and justification of those fun loving, much loved larrikins, the Aussie team. Why do we need to keep hearing about it if we all know what we did was ok and everyone supports us.

rgren2 · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
It seems funny that if everyone seems to think it was all OK then why do the media keep bombarding us everyday with criticism of the Poms and justification of those fun loving, much loved larrikins, the Aussie team. Why do we need to keep hearing about it if we all know what we did was ok and everyone supports us.

Have to generate some interest in the game. Bit of jingoism, create some publicity, fire the public up. Bums on seats/couches, you can bet there is money to be made.

Basher · Senior Member

I think times have changed , in all sports and not necessarily for the good of the game.
Once upon a time sportsman had full time jods, trained 2 or 3 nights a week and paid two fifths of f,,,kall.
Today with the amount of money involved, in some sports more than others ala, Soccer(European) and American basketball(millions of $), things and attitudes have changed, its win at all costs as long as its within the rules(even thats in question at times with the introduction of betting on all sports).
I think because of this what we would have done 30yrs ago as far as good sportsmanship hss all been forgotten, its all about money, sad really

As far as the media goes, they are a bloody joke, all of them
Basher
PS: again, apologies for any bad grammar!

-- Edited by Basher on Thursday 6th of July 2023 09:36:35 AM

Kebbin · Guru

If you have a look at the video which has recently came to light Carey released the ball before Bairstow left the wicket. The Englishman clearly has not learnt from his own actions of taking wicket(s) in the same circumstance.
I'm sure that he and his teammates will come up with something more exotic for the Australians in the 3rd Test, I'm equally sure that Oilley Robinson will continue vilifying Usman Khawaja.

Basher · Senior Member

I posted the same earlier, it was obvious on the day, he walked out of his crease with the ball already in motion, its his own fault.
Basher

rmoor · Senior Member

A mate sent me this today, some comments from a very experienced and competent umpire - Simon Taufel. I think he sums it up extremely well, and I quote:

Simon Taufel, who is a former ICC Elite Umpire and current member of the MCC laws sub-committee, has written this post on LinkedIn discussing the Jonny Bairstow dismissal during the second Ashes Test at Lord's:

"Was Jonny Bairstows dismissal at Lords a breach of the Spirit of Cricket? This is a question I have been inundated with, so I thought it best to share my thoughts publicly by asking everyone a question or eight to consider

1. "Have you seen any umpire tell a fielding side that the keeper standing back is not allowed to attempt a stumping?

2. "Was there a complaint from anyone when Bairstow tried to stump Marnus exactly the same way in the first innings?

3. "What has Jonny Bairstow said about his dismissal? He has been very quiet. Why?

4. "My experience is when people dont like a dismissal under the Laws of Cricket, they cite the Spirit of Cricket to support their view.

5. "Which part of the codified Preamble (the Spirit of Cricket) was breached by the fielding side?

6. "What did the fielding side do in effecting a legitimate dismissal that unfairly impacted the ability of the batter in their attempt not to be dismissed? (Did they run into him or distract him or prevent him making good his ground?)

7. "Should a batter be immune from dismissal as per the Laws by simply being negligent (and leaving his ground too early)?

8. "Did England retire Ben Duckett when they disagreed with the Starc catch decision as per the Laws and umpires decision?

"The hypocrisy and lack of consistency from some people and groups is quite interesting and concerning for the future of our game.

"Maybe I am the odd one out here?

"The good news is that we are actively engaged with Test cricket, the best form of the game."

DMaxer · Guru

Hi RMoor, the old club cricket captain you mentioned would be Greg Dyer. The catch in question was against NZ and it was off McDermott.

He was treated pretty shabbily after that and I think that was not justified. There is footage of the incident online and when he took the catch he did not appeal but held the ball up and asked the umpire if it had carried. The ball came out of his left glove, bounced and ended up in his right glove all in a split second. The umpire at the bowler's end didn't know so asked the square leg umpire who confirmed it was a catch. Border and the rest of the close in fielders thought it was a catch and not until the slow motion replay was shown could you detect the ball bouncing between the gloves.

Whenever anybody catches one close to the ground or grabs it at the second attempt it is virtually impossible to know yourself if it has grounded. It feels like you have caught it cleanly and really, only forensic slow motion photography can give any idea.

He was replaced by Ian Healy, who by the way was pretty lucky to get in, as the next one should have been Anderson who was out injured with a broken finger and Heales was filling in for him in the Qld team.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 6th of July 2023 02:17:32 PM

Basher · Senior Member

Great post RMoor, it says it all, so basically

OUT !

Basher

DMaxer · Guru

There is no doubt, he was out.

One final question though; Do you think Rod Marsh or Adam Gilchrist would have done that?

rmoor · Senior Member

Yes. It was GD. He was a good bloke. Good all round cricketer. After I posted I wondered about Pakistan and NZ came to mind (didn't google it as I was writing obviously). He was unlucky to be dropped and never seen again. I don't remember Anderson? Cannot recall ever catching one on the half volley? I kept wickets as a stand in to Dave Gilbert on one occasion back in those days, he was awful quick at the time. Half volley's do happen a bit with return catches to bowlers and can be hard to determine with the naked eye sometimes if it is out or not.
An hour or so ago I was talking to an ex NSW fast bowler played Sheffield Shield under Richie Benaud. I asked him about the "Carey" incident and his reply was. "That is what poms do when they are losing".
A while ago I mentioned to him I had an old autograph of one of his old team mates. Frank Misson.
He was not greatly impressed, said "Bl**dy Frank". "Cost me a tour of England and I would have got wickets as conditions suited me. After every game we would go for a beer upstairs and Frank would run 3 laps around the MCG and the selectors would see him. They were impressed with his dedication and he got the nod".
I left it at that, sore point.

Will be a very interesting match tonight. One wonders if there will be some sort of controversy in this game. I think there will be. My old mate above was not impressed at all with England's employment of the short pitched stuff and when the Aussies followed suit it was boring and "just not cricket". I agreed with him, I tired of it quickly as well.
I will stick my neck out for some stick and make some predictions. Harry Brook to fail at No.3. Bairstow to try and be a hero but fail and also drop at least 2 catches (again) and Wood to bounce the Australians relentlessly and the controversy will be he will hurt someone real bad. Then it will be on???

DMaxer · Guru

Great memories rmoor. As a schoolboy I saw Frank Misson play. He was in the Aussie 12 when the Windies toured here under Frank Worrell in 1960/61. I think Alan Davidson and Ian Meckiff were our two openers in the Sydney test and Frank was 12th man. He had a really unusual run up to bowl in that he would sway from side to side. He was quick. He was around at the time of Graeme MacKenzie, Laurie Mayne from WA and Alan Connolly from Victoria. Shortly after that was Dave Renneburg followed a couple of years later by the two from Bankstown. (You will know who they were) The latter two were in Green Shield (under 16s) and terrified all of Sydney.

Dave Gilbert was a good bowler and quick but unfortunately he was around at the time when we had several others just slightly better. The quickest around in my time were Dave Colley and Steve Bernard. I remember back in those days there was not as many Tests and Sheffield Shield games and it was not unusual to have Test and Shield players fronting up on Saturdays for club games. Unlike today where Test players play little Shield in a season.

I think the Poms have a reasonable record at both Leeds and Manchester and we have an abysmal record at the Oval. I think our record at the Oval is crook mainly because the Ashes are usually decided by then and in past years, it was at the end of a long tour. Not so now, not even a county game where before we would play every one of them. It was their main fund raiser every four years.

Looking forward to tonight. I think the locals will give us stick but really, the cricketers all know each other and play with each other in various teams so it is all just another day at the office for them, despite the theatrics.

Looking forward to it. (Go the Poms.) biggrin biggrin biggrin

Basher · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
There is no doubt, he was out.
One final question though; Do you think Rod Marsh or Adam Gilchrist would have done that?

Tough question DMaxer, different times back when Marshy was playing, still I think under some circumstances he would have

Gilly, possibly not, all round nice guy.

I think things have changed and there is some bad blood I fee between the Poms and Aussies the last few years.

As I have said, tooooo much money involved in all sports these days, thsts the killer!

Basher

Ps: grammar police, all good ?????

Greg 1 · Guru

Provided the poms get the bottom lip back in and stop whinging long enough, we may get a decent game.

rmoor · Senior Member

You can have your poms!!!!
I am not a big Warner fan though and these glove changing jump around early order batsmen annoy me no end. Head is a good player but frustrating and looks a second grader on occasions. They will pepper Head with short stuff in this test, I would too. With a leg slip and a leg gully in place. An old cricketing mate of mine reckons Green is not a no 6 and so far I agree. He takes too long to get set and is a bit one dimensional. Bowls OK though. Massive fan of Boland but the poms will come after him (if selected) and could hit he and Murphy out of the attack. Hope not though, it could also backfire on the team of whingers.
Yes, Dave was super quick, he was a slider, he skidded. Skidded into the pads too and his length was really difficult to pick. It was either slamming into the pads or brushing the chin.
In the early days he had a natural slinging action but as his career progressed some clown coach got hold of him and turned his action into a more conventional one and as a result I reckon he lost his zip a bit.
Steve Bernard was a local boy from the bush and express pace also. Didn't deviate the ball like Frank Misson didn't also (my mate tells me). When in the bush making a few my dad told me if NSW took a trial game to Mudgee selectors said I was playing, if to Newcastle, not playing. The opening bowlers then were Thomson and Dave Colley (Walters, O'Keefe, Davis, Turner from memory in that side). For a week or so I was relishing the thought of lining up and opening against an emerging Thomson, even to get a duck would have sufficed!!! Late one evening my late dad broke the news to me, game to Newcastle, I felt a tear well in the eye, the one claim to fame for a rising 19 y.o.!!!

Yeah, be very interesting game tonight. Bet there are some heavy discussions from officials from both sides prior to this one.
I am NOT a Stokes fan, in any form of the game. I realise how dangerous he was in the last game but at the end of the day he is really just a bit of a "basher". He has a ton of intestinal fortitude, I will give him that but I love to see him out cheaply. On yer way I say. I think it is fairly obvious with him. Stack the offside with aggressive catching placements and give him NOTHING outside leg stump. Surely?

rmoor · Senior Member

Basher. haven't spotted the grammar coppers get you yet? Keep at it though, they will come, as sure a thing as a pommie whinging

Don't think Gilchrist would, he was a walker and a bit of a stickler for fair play, so I guess not.
Rod Marsh, probably not, he was disgusted and possibly from memory had his arms folded when the underarm one came down and he protested heavily before the ball was bowled (to Ewen Chatfield from memory), who could not bat to save his life.
That was an awful on field decision and Marsh was right, don't do it boss.
Maybe, in hindsight, a good captain would call his team together prior to every match and lay down the do's and don't's??? Don't Mankad without a warning, don't (Carey) stump without a warning, don't call the opposition a ^&%, don't appeal when you know it is not out, don't (for heavens sake) abuse the umpire, don't ping the batsman in anger when he is in his crease etc etc.
I have had a few beers with Rod Marsh, he was VERY to the point, not one to take prisoners but I would like to think he would have had a blunt word with a lazy batsman first?
The best one to have a few beers with is that Legend Dougy, what a man, very funny laconic man, wonder what he thinks about all these shenanigans?

Basher · Senior Member

Yes, re Gilly, and 100% correct with Marshy and the underarm, he was disgusted with that, I think we all were at the time.
Wow, a couple of legends of the game, treasure those memories, so sad Marshy left us really so young and lets not mention Deano and the greatest of them all Warney

Cheers, tonight is going to be amazing, maybe even the cricket?!?!? biggrin

Basher

PS: to the grammar sad sacks ditto ditto..

DMaxer · Guru

Great posts Basher and RMoor. I agree with everything you say regarding the players. As a lad I faced both Thomson and Durtanovich (Pascoe) in junior rep sides and they were terrifying.

I spent a bit of time in Newcastle and Rod Marsh would bring the academy from SA to play both Newcastle and country sides. He was up for a beer and a chat with everyone and probably the most loved bloke in sport I have ever met. As for the bloke from Dungog, well, everyone has a Dougy story. What a modest, funny and likeable bloke. He could turn a game with either a few quick wickets or a blasting century.

Looking forward to tonight. Shame Joffra is not playing.

I think you two blokes have summed it up pretty well without any bias or favouritism.

You know what I think about this lot, I love my cricket but, don't like this culture. I will be facing up when you and Basher open the bowling tonight. Go the Poms. biggrin biggrin biggrin

rmoor · Senior Member

Standing outside the pub after a session with Dougy, I had him sign a lovely Michael Clarke 389 Slazenger bat and some new gloves for raffles.
He grabbed the bat, had a few phantoms with it then looked at me and said "You know, I would have been a far greater batsman if I could bowl to myself".

rmoor · Senior Member

I had an old Rod Marsh St Peter bat, scored a mountain of runs with it, 101 not out first outing 17 fours.
It was all worn out at the front and covered in binding. Over a beer I asked Rod Marsh if he could sign it again as his name had worn off it.
He signed it and as he did I said - Rod that is the best bat I ever used. (It had a middle like a springboard).
He looked at me after signing is and said "I thought they were a ^%$ of a bat".
Deflated.
That night with a bathtub full of crownies, youthfull Bell, Flintoff, Harmison and co were having a lovely time raiding the bathtub.
Some one asked "Rod we believe you have a young quick by the name of Harmison who is very fast".
With that a 19 Y.O. Harmison had shot over, snared three or four crownies by the neck and shot back to his cronies, with the perfect timing of a K.D. Walters on-drive Marsh said :
"Yeah, he is fast - SEE".
Great sense of humour, great fella, sad loss.

Looking forward to the cricket tonight, will be interesting. Also interesting to see if the players behave (Broad?). We know the crowd won't behave.

rmoor · Senior Member

Have commented to a couple of old cricket mates. I would have loved to have seen the poms go on like a bunch of pork chops like Broad did and Lillee and Thomson were playing and at their best. As my old man used to say. Let the ball do the talking.........
I think Wood has been selected for a purpose and we will see a fair bit of him in this match.

Basher · Senior Member

Iam very envious hearing about some of your experiences DMaxer and RMoor.
Woods first over, very quick, should be very interesting
Lets just hope its a giood game, go the Aussies
Basher

Plain Truth · Guru

CUB has brewed special beverage .

DMaxer · Guru

Great night (day) of cricket. The hundred of Mitch Marsh was a cracking innings. Strangely, he only averages about 23 in Test cricket. He pulls one of these innings out every few years and then seems to go missing and ends up being dropped.

The other highlight was the ball by Wood that bowled Usmin Khawaja. What a beauty. Sheer pace, it swung and then seamed from outside the off stump to take out leg stump. Strangely in his case too is that he does not usually cause too many issues when he is playing at home. Away from home is another matter. Usually bowlers will back off the pace a bit to get the ball to swing or seam, this bloke just throttles it up.

Evenly poised. A wicket or two and Aussies are in front, a decent partnership and a bit of a lathering by Stokes and the Poms could take it out. Sad that the media keep banging on about bad feelings, the cricket is fantastic.

These players know each other well, they play in the same teams in IPL and Aussies play in the County games. I think they get together after the day's play and have a bit of a giggle about the theatre drummed up by the media.

I think there may be a bit of crook weather coming for the last couple of days, i hope not.

rmoor · Senior Member

Hey. my predictions were pretty good !!!!!

"I will stick my neck out for some stick and make some predictions. Harry Brook to fail at No.3. Bairstow to try and be a hero but fail and also drop at least 2 catches (again) and Wood to bounce the Australians relentlessly and the controversy will be he will hurt someone real bad. Then it will be on???"

What a great night of cricket, was amazed with Marsh' innings, was a rare one. Head better be careful, he looks awful in his last few outings and may lose his spot, Marsh 5, Green 6, or Head to replace Warner at the top of the order if he is an easy bunny again for the dummy spitter.
Bairstow wouldn't catch a cold in Alaska.
Root not much better, the England droppsy is highly entertaining.
Bairstow keeps like he has paddles sewn on, he doesn't "absorb" the ball like real keepers do?
Wood was dynamic, if he was fit and they left Bairstow out from the start giving his wicket away cheaply and looking like he is trying to catch a bar of soap it could easily be 1 - 1.
The moment of truth for Bairstow tonight, I hope they get him early, Boland or Starc look likely to remove him if conditions are favourable.
How England thought Brook is a No 3 really underlines just how unrealistic Stokes and his selectors are. I think they are out dancing with the pixies. He looks like a real bunny for the 2nd innings again, but not if they are 0 - 100.
Bit of a mystery which way this test goes?
I favour England because Wood could keep the Aussie top order only getting starts but if he falls over and does a fetlock the game could be ours.

Interesting test this one. Though I hope it does rain because I backed the draw hooked into multi with a stack of NRL and AFL favourites.

Bobdown · Guru

Bairstow.......can't catch, can't stump and can't stay in his crease.

Cheers........ Joe the cameraman smile smile

DMaxer · Guru

I think you are being a bit hard on Brook. Batting at number three is not easy, especially if one of the openers goes early. There have been many of our great batters fail at number three, just ask Steve Waugh. Most of our better batters started down the order and then came up later in their respective careers. Boon was at number six, Greg Chappell was at about number seven initially, even the greatest of them all, Sir Donald, he began at about six or seven. I think the best number three we have had since I began following cricket would be Ian Chappell. I saw Harvey but he was at the end of his career.

Not that I am or ever was anywhere near that level but I spent my whole time as an opener and that was so much easier than being number three. All (all???) you had to do was stay in for a while and knock it around a bit and you were classed as doing your job. Most of the really good batters like to bat at four or five as three is hard. See how he goes after the openers get a start, that will be the test.

Bairstow is a terrible keeper. I think they should play Foakes and maybe sent Bairstow in at number five if he retains his spot. He cost them both tests in my opinion. Not only does it give a batter another life, it demoralises the bowler and the fielders.

I don't think it will be on if Wood hits someone. We have been doing it for years and it is all part of the game. Strewth, they have more protective equipment than we ever had and they have a thing in their hands called a bat. Use it. As for Warner being dropped...won't happen. I have already told you why so let's not revisit that.

If the Poms happen to win this one I think the Aussies will go into a panic.

This has probably been one of the best Ashes contests in decades. I think England have lost the tests more than the Aussies winning them.

It is a shame they were not more spaced with a few county games thrown in as well.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 7th of July 2023 03:56:09 PM

Basher · Senior Member

Yes some great cricket last night, the game is very evenly balanced at the moment, if the Aussie can get rid of Roots, Bairstow and Stokes cheaply it will help.
Some of the fastest bowing seen for a few years, he is quick Wood.
Will be watching up until lunch tonight, then bed, off tomorrow early, heading north for some warmer weather.......hopefully
Basher
Ps: grammar police, find someone else to annoy as I will be a bit quieter while on the road, didvI say annoy!, I meant bore

rgren2 · Guru

In the spirit of the game say the Poms.